Float — The Story Behind 1 Million Installs on the iPhone

Brock, founder of Crawl Space Games, talks about developing iPhone games…including Float, the game that got over 1 million installs…

You can download the podcast here…
http://www.indiegamepod.com/podcasts/float-podcast.mp3

Or listen to it here…

[wp_youtube]QxnH3aWf38A[/wp_youtube]

Interviewer: Hi. Welcome to the show. How about you introduce yourself?

Brock: Hi. I’m Brock Henderson with Crawl Space Games.

Interviewer: And what’s Crawl Space Games about?

Brock: We make kind of fun, sometimes offbeat games for mobile, iPhone, and Android.

Interviewer: What inspired you to get into mobile games?

Brock: Well, a lot of my game ideas for a long time have kind of been smaller games, and that works out perfect for the mobile platform. Right now, the mobile platform’s the most interesting space, I think.

Interviewer: Yeah. When did you start developing for mobile games?

Brock: Sure. Let’s see, we started the company like a year and a half ago. Our first game that we did was in Unity 3D, and then the last two games that we’ve done have both been done using Corona SDK.

Interviewer: Now, when you started the company… It sounds like you have multiple people with the company. How did you decide to start this company? A lot of people will be with their friends and just talk about, oh, let’s do a game for mobile. What finally put you guys over the edge to actually decide and to develop a game?

Brock: Sure. Well, we’re pretty entrepreneurial. We have a design studio called Paper Tower that we do a lot of web work and some Flash games. And then, we just always wanted to do our own products and our own games. I wanted to be a game designer as long as I can remember. So when the mobile, the iPhone came out, when they added the games, the app store and everything and things started taking off, it just seemed like the perfect time to get into mobile.

Interviewer: When you started it, Flash was also pretty hot. So why not develop online games instead of mobile games?

Brock: Sure. We have done some on the client side. The mobile just seemed like a better opportunity to us at the moment.

Interviewer: So you started a year and a half ago. So you decide to use Unity 3D. What was the first game you made?

Brock: The first game we made was called Knife Toss. It was just a simple kind of arcade title where there’s this clown is strapped to a wheel and there’s balloons, and you’re throwing knives and axes trying to pop the balloons.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Brock: As in…

Interviewer: Oh. Go ahead.

Brock: So it was just a real small scope game. We wanted to just get our feet wet and not bite off more than we could chew.

Interviewer: Yeah. How long did it take to make that first game?

Brock: I think it took, I want to say, three months because we were completely new to Unity, and we spent some time, at least, a month getting familiar with Unity. And then, we ended up building the game a couple times because the first time we built it, it just wasn’t optimized and just didn’t run well. So we ended up having to learn a lot about optimizing things for mobile and the Unity platform. So we ended up building it a couple time before we were actually able to submit it.

Interviewer: And so, you submit it. What happened next?

Brock: For Knife Toss, pretty quickly after we submitted that we participated in Open Feint’s free app of the day. That got us some exposure. Apple picked us up, and we were on the New and Noteworthy list.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Brock: It did pretty well, and it’s still getting sales now.

Interviewer: Yeah. Did you guys decide to do a free version, or how much did you decide to charge for it? And did you decide to have a light version or something else like that?

Brock: Sure. It was a 99 cent game. Like I said before, it was kind of small in scope so we didn’t think we could charge anything more than that. Later on, we released an ad supported version, and that’s actually kind of helped sales as well. When we put out the ad supported version, we noticed a little boost to our regular sales.

Interviewer: Was that game the first product you’ve sold because it sounds like you’ve done contract work before?

Brock: Yeah. That was our first, our own product, yeah.

Interviewer: What were you guys feeling at that point? So you release a game. You’re making some sales. What’s the perspective like? How did your studio feel, and what did you decide to do next?

Brock: We were feeling pretty good. It was pretty awesome to get on the New and Noteworthy list. We didn’t necessarily know what to expect on sales but for our first title we got pretty good reviews, and we were pretty happy with it. The next game that we decided to do is a game called Zombies Ala Mode. We started it in Unity, but we weren’t happy with the performance. So we switched to Corona SDK.

Interviewer: OK. How long ago was this, this Zombies Ala Mode game?

Brock: That came out in November, I think.

Interviewer: OK. What inspired you? Usually, people don’t want to change their tools. They’re usually happy with what they have, so that’s pretty provocative that you decided to change your tools. What exactly inspired it, because everyone talks about performance issues, but you know what, Unity 3D sounds a lot better than just doing Objective-C.

Brock: Yeah. No, it definitely is. The thing is that most of our ideas right now are kind of more 2D based.

Interviewer: Gotcha. Gotcha.

Brock: Unity 3D is awesome for 3D games, and I highly recommend it for that. But if you’re doing a 2D based game, it doesn’t make sense to be doing it in a 3D engine and kind of faking the 2D.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Brock: So we looked at Cocos 2D, and we looked at some other frameworks and stuff, but we ultimately decided on Corona because we could do cross platform development on it. It doesn’t make sense to us to be locked into a single platform.

Interviewer: Yeah. So with Corona, how long did it take to do Zombies Ala Mode?

Brock: Yeah. The funny thing about that is that we submitted it to the app store using Unity, and it took a couple months to build that. And then, literally we posted it and during the time that Apple reviewed it, we basically rebuilt the game in like a week, a week and a half.

Interviewer: Yeah. So what were you guys feeling then, recognizing that you could use Corona to develop your games a lot faster?

Brock: We come from, like I said, a Flash background so Corona felt a lot better to us. We can use TextMate, and it uses Lua programming language. Moving from AS3 to Lua wasn’t much of a jump. It just felt like a much better fit for our studio with our backgrounds.

Interviewer: And for the audience out there, can you describe the game play for Zombies Ala Mode?

Brock: Sure. It’s a casual game, and it’s makes a couple different genres. If you’re familiar with Scoops, it’s kind of like that, and it’s also kind of like a Diner Dash where you’re a zombie and you’re working at an ice cream stand, and you’re trying to fill orders and avoid obstacles.

Interviewer: OK. Is it kind of like Diner Dash then?

Brock: Kind of, yeah. It’s a little bit more action because you’re tilting the device back and forth to avoid obstacles. But yeah, it has a lot of those time management aspects to it, and you’re trying to get tips and stuff.

Interviewer: So you mentioned tilting in the game. How did the user testing play out with that? Do people actually want to use the accelerometer type features, or do they just want a simple play experience where they can tap and stuff?

Brock: Yeah. Based on user feedback after we released it, it seems like a lot of people really struggle with tilt. And going into it, we didn’t think it would be much of a problem because games like Doodle Jump which is one of the highest selling games, you know, uses tilt. And that was kind of the game mechanic that I was imagining that you could play it with just one hand and tilt back and forth and use your thumb to tap and hand off. But people really struggle with it. So in a future update, we’re going to allow the option to change the controls.

Interviewer: What were other things that you learned during the user testing?

Brock: You really, really have to spell things out for people. Things that we thought were obvious weren’t obvious to people for the first time. Also, just some of the game balancing things that were fun for us were too hard for other people, so we had to lower some of the difficulty levels.

Adam, one of our programmers, said that you need to remember that you’re always the best at your own game.

Interviewer: Yeah. Once you released this game, what were you feeling at that point, and what was the price point for this game? Did you decide to take a different business model approach here, or was it the same where you had a paid version?

Brock: Sure. Well, we had a free and a paid version. The paid version came out first. We really put a lot of content into it, so we tried charging a higher price point. I think it was $1.99 or $2.99 to first start, but it pretty quickly dropped to 99 cents. In the HD version for the iPad it’s still $1.99.

Interviewer: How were the sales compared to your initial game because you used a different platform this time?

Brock: Yeah.

Interviewer: Did that help or hurt?

Brock: I don’t think the platform had much to do with it, but our sales weren’t as good as Knife Toss. I think that has a lot to do with just kind of complicated mechanics. Our first game was so simple, and it really seems like some of the best games on the mobile are just very, very simple and have one mechanic.

Interviewer: So yeah, so at that point how were you feeling? It sounds like you spent a lot more time on Zombies Ala Mode, and you got less of a return. As a studio, what did you guys decide to do?

Brock: Well, our next game, Float, we wanted to do something that took a lot less time and also was a lot simpler. We tried to learn as much as we could from, I guess, our failures in this case.

Interviewer: They’re learning lessons or whatever.

Brock: Yeah. Learning lessons. So we wanted to do something faster and simpler.

Interviewer: And so, what idea did you guys come up with?

Brock: Sure. So we spent a lot of time batting around ideas, and the idea of Float came about. In Float you basically are kind of tapping, batting balloons around, and you’re trying to keep them off the spikes. It’s a game everyone has played in their life where they’ve picked up a balloon and batted it around and tried to keep it from touching the floor. So it kind of has a universal appeal.

Interviewer: How long did it take to make that app?

Brock: I think that one took like a month, I would say.

Interviewer: OK. What did you guys decide to do this time in terms of the business model and selling it and stuff like that?

Brock: So we’re doing two versions again. There’s an ad supported version and also a paid version. The ad supported version is you’re going to be able to unlock the whole game for 99 cents, and the paid version is just 99 cents.

Interviewer: OK. When did you release this game?

Brock: We released it about a week ago.

Interviewer: Around February 14th, 2011.

Brock: Yeah.

Interviewer: OK. How is that going? And what else did you do differently on this release? Now, you’ve released two games before. I mean, what did you guys also decide to do differently this time? For one thing, I saw that your trailer seemed pretty polished on YouTube. So I wasn’t sure if that’s something you guys did in previous games.

Brock: Yeah. All of our trailers, I would say, have been pretty polished just because we come from a web, motion graphics background, so we’ve done some nice trailers.

Interviewer: I see.

Brock: This one we decided to make the trailer kind of follow suit with just the idea of the game, and we wanted to just have the trailer out really fast. So we just videotaped it this time. We videotaped myself playing it, and we just had a little motion graphics at the end, but it took considerably less time to put out the trailer.

Interviewer: And in terms of user testing, what was the response for this game?

Brock: The user testing response has been great. It tests well with hard core gamers clear down to the littlest gamers. My young, one year old daughter can sit on my lap and play it, but we have enough achievements and leader boards and combos and stuff for people that like more complex challenges and stuff more.

Interviewer: Yeah. For the audience, can you describe the game play?

Brock: Sure. Each mode has a little bit different game play, but the idea on all the modes is that you try to keep the balloons up as long as you can and off the spikes. The normal mode is kind of round based, so balloons float down from the ceiling, and there’s a little dotted line that moves around on your screen for each round. And if you touch it in the bonus area there, you get a lot more points. The balloons are swept away with some wind in between rounds, and more balloons come in and so that’s the normal mode.

There’s a limbo mode where you’re trying to get the line as low as you can. There’s a hot potato mode where you’re trying to keep a star balloon in the air as long as you can, but you can’t touch it. You have to bat the other balloons into it and keep it in the air. We’re also working on a helium pack so all the balloons are rising, and we have three modes for that under development right now.

Interviewer: Great. So now that you’ve released this, what’s been the results? Are people taking to this game a lot more than the previous ones? What’s changed?

Brock: Yeah. So Apple has picked us up. We’re on the New and Noteworthy list right now, and it’s starting to get some good reviews. Right now we’re spending a lot of time trying to get reviews and just market the game and get it out there in front of people. But all the ratings have been very favorable.

Interviewer: Let’s talk about some of the marketing things you’re doing to get more exposure. So you’re submitting to review sites, but other developers do that. How do you get noticed? How do you get these review sites to actually write up about you?

Brock: I think a lot of it has to do with the game. For Zombies Ala Mode we actually hired an agency to help us, and they got it out in front of a lot of people. But not a lot of people wrote about it, and I think it’s just because of the game.

Interviewer: Gotcha.

Brock: Yeah. When we sent it to these places, we kind of give a little description and stuff and also a link to the trailer. I think it kind of peaks people’s interest in seeing the screen shots and the trailer and stuff.

Interviewer: Are you going to try to use an agency this time or just do it yourself?

Brock: I think this time we’re going to do it ourselves.

Interviewer: Yeah. Aside from that, what are other things that you’re going to do to market it? With the mobile space, it seems like it’s kind of… Some apps will not do any marketing and just go to number one.

Brock: Yeah.

Interviewer: And you have other apps that will do a lot of marketing and not make it. So what do you feel is the formula to make a success on the iPhone?

Brock: Yeah. That’s a great question and something that we’ve been wrestling with for a while. I don’t know if there is a magic formula. Sometimes, in the case of Bubble Ball, maybe, it’s just a great story of a 14 year old kid.

Interviewer: Well, to be fair though, it got to number one before people knew he was 14.

Brock: True. OK.

Interviewer: So I know, some people were like, oh well, everyone wants to hear about this 14 year old protégé or whatever, but it got there without people knowing that. Once it got to number one or in the top ten, then people are like, wow, this 14 year old did it. That may have helped kind of keep it there, but to get there in the first place this guy did no marketing because he was busy with his, like, school.

Brock: Yeah.

Interviewer: I don’t think he knew to submit to review sites and all that other stuff.

Brock: I think free probably had a lot to do with that.

Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. OK. Go ahead.

Brock: Some other things we’re working on, we’ve contacted a lot of YouTube reviewers. We’re giving away promo codes. We’re trying to reach out through Twitter to some of the different developers.

Interviewer: Are you guys going to do a story kind of like Angry Birds where they had a cute story associated with their game.

Brock: Not for Float, no.

Interviewer: OK. Aside from that, are you going to buy advertising or do some of these cross promotion exchanges and stuff like that?

Brock: I’ve read a lot. I don’t think advertising necessarily works, especially when it’s kind of spotty. Maybe, if you canvassed sites for a while, then it might work, but just kind of the ads here and there don’t necessarily work. Now, sometimes some of the review sites and stuff will throw in an ad, if you pay for their review or whatever. So we’re considering that.

Interviewer: Yeah. What about the strategy of making your app free for one day or something? Is that…

Brock: We’re actually going to participate in that again. Coming up March 4th we’re going to be part of FreeAppADay.com’s giveaway. And then later, we’re going to participate with OpenFeint.

Interviewer: And you do have a light version for this, right?

Brock: Yeah. It’ll be out next week. We’re just waiting on approval.

Interviewer: Gotcha. Will that just be ad supported, or what is the strategy there?

Brock: Sure. So there’s ads in it, and then some of the game modes are locked. If you pay 99 cents it’ll turn off the ads and unlock all the game modes. So it’ll basically give you… It’ll be the paid version at that point.

Interviewer: Would you say your ad revenue is on par with your actual sales revenue, or is there a huge difference still?

Brock: This is going to be our first. That’s not true. Knife Toss, the ad sales or the ad revenue from that is a lot less than the paid version, and that may partially be because of iAds film rate is so low right now.

Interviewer: Yeah. That’s what I’ve heard.

Brock But we’re using a different ad service for the ones in flow.

Interviewer: You also mentioned Android development. So are you guys really seeing these on Android? What’s been the response there?

Brock: We plan to release both Zombies and Float for Android. We’re waiting on Corona at the moment to fix a couple of bugs, just with performance issues. But those should be addressed here probably in the next couple of weeks, and then, yeah, we should be able to get our games on Android then.

Interviewer: What are the bugs? Is it just sound because I heard there’s an issue with Android and sound.

Brock: Right now, it’s performance issues.

Interviewer: Like physics.

Brock: A few points, too, and lower just have a lot of performance issues with touch events and physics and stuff. They’re completely redoing some of that stuff on the Android side, Corona is.

Interviewer: Yeah. So what’s next in store for your studio?

Brock: We have a whole bunch of ideas lined up. I think our next game is going to have something to do with robots.

Interviewer: OK. Are you still going to focus on physics game play or single game player play, or are you going to try to make it multi player now? What’s the strategy there?

Brock: I think the multi player stuff is a little down the line for us. I think the next game coming is going to be single player, and it might be… We’re going to try to explore chain reaction type of games.

Interviewer: Gotcha. What do you feel about the space? Do you feel it’s too late then to have a successful mobile studio because now it seems like mobile’s getting very high and everyone’s jumping towards it? What are your feelings there, and where do you feel the market is going to go in the next year?

Brock: Sure. It does. The mobile space is definitely crowded, but it seems to me that all the spaces are crowded at this point, whether you’re doing Flash online game or whatever you’re doing.

Interviewer: Good point. Good point.

Brock: There’s a lot of competition everywhere. It’s going to be really interesting once some of these tablets come out, when some of the better Android stuff hits with tablets,
and we’ll see what Web OS and Windows Phone and stuff does. I think that’s going to be really interesting once all the tablets get out. Also, there’s talk eventually Corona might support the Mac App Store, so that would be really interesting, too.

Interviewer: Nice. Are you thinking about developing games specifically for the iPad? That doesn’t seem as crowded. Obviously, the iPhone games can be applied to iPad, but I wasn’t sure if that’s something you’re also looking into. You mentioned your one year old daughter.

Brock: Yeah. Both Zombies Ala Mode and Float, you can play them on the iPad. We did an HD version of Zombies Ala Mode, and then Float is a universal build so you can play it on iPad, iPhone and iPod Touch.

Interviewer: Well, with Zombies Ala Mode, the iPad version, did you see a decent amount of sales there? Is the volume of iPad enough where it’s worthwhile to focus on the iPad?

Brock: Yeah. I think so. If I remember correctly, our iPad sales on a daily basis, they’re better than the iPhone sales.

Interviewer: OK.

Brock: Right now.

Interviewer: Since you have a one year old daughter, are you looking at games then that your child can just like… Does she play with the iPad any?

Brock: Yeah. She does. I also have a three year old boy that is love with playing Plants versus Zombies.

Interviewer: Oh OK. Cool.

Brock: He loves playing that on the iPad. But my kids love the iPad. We’re also looking at doing some other games for just little kids, kind of similar to what Duck Duck Moose is. Kind of interactive stories or more toys since they’re not necessarily games but they’re activities, I guess.

Interviewer: Are your kids into the iPhone, or do they gravitate more towards the iPad?

Brock: I think definitely they gravitate to the iPad just because it’s bigger and easier to play and stuff, but they can definitely play the iPhone, too.

Interviewer: I mean, you have an awesome test group there of kids, so you talked about these interactive stories. Why not develop for the kids’ market versus the general market at this point?

Brock: Yeah.

Interviewer: I don’t know if there are enough kids on these platforms to make it worthwhile, but I have definitely seen these kind of interactive stories.

Brock: And I definitely think that the parents are willing to buy these for their kids, too. Sometime this year we hope to launch one of those. I definitely think there’s opportunity for revenue and just a lot of opportunity for growth in that space because it’s perfect for little kids. Kids naturally want to touch the screen on the computer and stuff.

Interviewer: Is your three year old even using the PC any more?

Brock: Not really.

Interviewer: Wow. So he may not go online and play Flash games or all that other stuff.

Brock: No. I mean, he’s expressed a little interest in the computer, but it’s more hard using a mouse than it is…

Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah.

Brock: He’s a whiz at playing Plants versus Zombies.

Interviewer: I mean, the reason I bring that up is I think some people have mentioned that the thing about iPhone and even iPad to an extent is like, when parents are with their kids, they may just give their kid the iPhone just to keep them quiet. So that’s an opportunity where these kids can play the games, that are entertaining.

Given all your learning experiences now for this mobile platform, what are you going to be doing more differently moving forward?

Brock: Well, I think because we’re a small independent studio we’re definitely try to find games and ideas that appeal to a mass market, quite a broad range, and we also are looking for ways to just develop quickly and be agile so we can lower the risk of developing games.

Interviewer: Yeah. What are learning lessons then that other developers who are looking to do their own games for mobile should consider?

Brock: Sure. I would say, keep the game simple. Do it because you want to. Be aware of feature creep. Keep your scope small. And, I guess, do everything you can to lower your cost upfront so you’re lowering your risk of development.

Interviewer: So by lowering cost, does that mean you just do your own program art, or what’s your suggestion there? Because for a lot of developers now, you have something like Corona or Unity 3D. It really does speed up development, but you still have the bottleneck of art work, I think.

Brock: Sure. We come from an art background and…

Interviewer: Oh yes. That works really well for you, right.

Brock: We learned to program and stuff, but coming from that art background we’ve talked to a lot of people, and there’s a lot of artists that are wanting to break into gaming. So there’s no reason why you can’t team up with an artist, an audio guy.

Interviewer: Did you guys do your own audio or get an audio guy, or did you buy pre-made audio clips, like from SoundRangers.com or something like that.

Brock: Yeah. We’ve done some of both. We have some guys that are good with audio and did some of their own fully. And then, for some of the music we did some stock tracks and stuff.

Interviewer: Do you feel that audio and art work and all that stuff really matters? And you look at something like Bubble Ball, no one would have predicted that would have been number one.

Brock: Yeah.

Interviewer: So is it really more about the game play over everything else, or do those other things matter? Would the best strategy be release something? It may not be perfect, but if it gets traction then refine and improve the art work and other things.

Brock: Well, I personally believe that all the things do matter. They greatly enhance the experience and make the experience. So you definitely need to have a fun mechanic, and your game play needs to be solid. But I think it all comes together, and I think it is important. Personally, I think things like Bubble Ball are kind of a little bit of an anomaly.

At most in general, if you look at the top of the charts they do have good quality art and sound effects as a rule, I think. Now, there’s styles. There’s the Doodle style which some people put out, but in general I would say that I believe you need to have high quality art and sound.

Interviewer: Let’s talk about OpenFeint. How has that been in terms of… What have you used OpenFeint for, and has that actually helped your game? It doesn’t sound like your games are multi player, so I wasn’t sure what the benefit of OpenFeint was, aside from, maybe, cross promotion or something like that.

Brock: Yeah. They enable us to do leader boards and achievements real easily, and I do think that does add some value to the game. And I think it adds some replayability for some types of players.

Interviewer: OK. And do you have analytics in your games so you can see how often people are playing and how often they’re playing and stuff like that?

Brock: Yeah. We started using Flurry Analytics.

Interviewer: Yeah. Have you found that to be useful? Is it important to have analytics, and what have those analytics opened your eyes to in terms of how people are using your games?

Brock: Sure. I think analytics are very important. Again, we come from a web background, so it’s always interesting to study a website’s analytics. From a game design standpoint, I think it can help you balance the game. I think that’s a big thing you can learn from it and also just kind of see if there’s flow issues, if the people are getting stuck somewhere.

Interviewer: Well, have the analytics inspired you to change anything about the design of your game or do an update based on what you’re seeing in the analytics?

Brock: Not yet. We just started implementing them into Float in its early days, but we’re definitely going to be watching them and see if there’s things that we need to tweak.

Interviewer: Do you have stats on how long people play Float each day or any other interesting stat that the audience could benefit from?

Brock: Yeah. Let me come back to that. Adam’s going to look it up for me.

Interviewer: OK. How are you going to stand out now? I know you said that moving forward you guys have got some other quick play ideas out there, but like we kind of discussed, there’s already interactive storybooks for kids. There’s already physics games. There are already MMOs. There are all these other types of games. How do you stand out? What are you going to do to really break away from the crowd?

Brock: Sure. I think some of it is just building a brand, building some brand recognition and also building some intellectual property that you can build some characters that are recognizable for little kids.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Brock: That’s the plan that we’re going with for the little kid games. We’re developing a series called Pasture Play, and those games are all going to be faith based out of the Bible.

Interviewer: Oh OK.

Brock: So we’re going to do multiple Bible stories and stuff.

Interviewer: Is that the next thing you guys are going to release, or is that going to come out in parallel with your kind of mass market approach, too?

Brock: Those are going to be under a different brand. They’ll be out this year. So Crawl Space Games are kind of the fun and quirky games for everyone, and then Play Pen games is just going to be for family friendly games.

Interviewer: How is Twitter? Do you find Twitter a viable marketing channel, or are you using Facebook Pages and all that other stuff to do marketing?

Brock: Yeah. We have a Facebook Page, and we also do stuff on Twitter. We have found that Twitter is a good way to connect and also Facebook. The Ansca community around Corona is certain to be pretty vibrant. They’ve been supporting Float. We’ve been giving away promo codes and stuff, and that’s been pretty exciting to see.

Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. So any other stats on the Flurry stuff or is that…

Brock: So the average play time’s between one to three minutes.

Interviewer: Cool.

Brock: A typical, I guess, one mode or whatever. That’s, I think, pretty normal for mobile. You play it here and there, when you’re standing in line and, again, another reason why when to keep it simple because people are often doing other things or waiting while they’re playing.

Interviewer: Aside from your own games, what are your favorite mobile apps and games?

Brock: Let’s see. Plants versus Zombies is a big family favorite. I know a lot of the guys in the office are playing Tiny Wings now.

Interviewer: Yeah. I heard about that. You know, that’s another story, right? That’s another story of literally this guy… It sounds like one guy.

Brock: Yeah.

Interviewer: It went from nothing to almost… Is it number one now?

Brock: Yeah. It’s number one. It knocked Angry Birds off the other day.

Interviewer: It doesn’t even have a light version. What is it? What do you think it is that’s… Some of these things just shoot up out of nowhere.

Brock: I think with Tiny Wings it’s just polished to perfection. It looks beautiful, and the mechanics are just great. He did an awesome job with it.

Interviewer: Well, you know, a lot of people do an awesome job, right?

Brock: Yeah.

Interviewer: But there’s no free version, so you can’t test it. I guess, maybe, the fact that it’s kind of shot up there is what inspired people, but there’s so many other games that also look nice, right? It’s not like just the top five games are the ones that are the most polished.

Brock: Yeah. That’s true.

Interviewer: I don’t know because I was talking to someone else about that. We were like, why is that? Why does one thing shoot up? And then, I don’t think he submitted to any review site or anything else. But, yeah, so you haven’t found that formula yet then.

Brock: No. I wish.

Interviewer: OK. So, Tiny Wings. Any other apps? Do you use any other utility apps?

Brock: I thought EpicWin was a fun idea. It’s a “to do” app. It’s made of light RPG elements. I thought that was pretty fun. Instapaper, what else are we playing? You know, we just try out a lot of games all the time just…

Interviewer: That’s part of your development strategy is to just keep on playing other games and see what you can learn from them.

Brock: Oh yeah, definitely. We’re just getting started in game development, so we have a lot to learn.

Interviewer: Yeah. What are you guys doing then to make sure and beef up your game development and game design skills?

Brock: I’m reading all the time and playing a lot of games.

Interviewer: What kind of things are you reading? Is it mainly books, mainly online?

Brock: Yeah. I’ve been reading a lot of game design books. I can look up… Hold on a second.

Interviewer: Some of the people I interview, they’re kind of doing game development as a hobby. And so, it would be nice to know how you’re keeping up with game development. It is a quickly changing pace, and there’s always something new to learn. It would be nice to hear just how you keep up with it and also keep up on the mobile space where there are a lot of apps released every day.

Brock: Yeah. One book recommendation, I’ve read quite a few game designs books here lately, but “The Art of Game Design” by Jesse Schell, that’s one of my favorite books so far.

Interviewer: Great.

Brock: I also last year attended Casual Connect in Seattle for the first time. So we’re trying to go to some conferences and stuff.

Interviewer: Did you find that conference valuable?

Brock: There were definitely some sessions that were really interesting, especially about just trying to monetize games and just the business side of it. Like I said, we have a lot to learn. I felt like a “newb” going there just trying to soak up as much information as I could.

Interviewer: Are you guys going to Game Developers Conference or focus on Casual Connect?

Brock: Right now, I think we’re going to focus on Casual Connect. I’d love to go to GDC in the future, but right now just our schedules and stuff don’t allow for it.

Interviewer: OK. Where can listeners find out more information about your games and potentially play them?

Brock: Yeah. Our main site is CrawlSpaceGames.com.

Interviewer: OK. And how do you spell that?

Brock: C-R-A-W-L-S-P-A-C-E-G-A-M-E-S.com.

Interviewer: Great.

Brock: And then, if you want to check out Float, we have a separate site for that. It’s called FloatGame.com.

Interviewer: OK. Great. Any other last words then for developers out there looking to do mobile games or thinking about mobile development?

Brock: Yeah. Have fun and check out Corona. We recommend it.

Interviewer: OK. Great. Thank you very much for your time. Appreciate it.

Brock: Yeah. Thank you.

Interviewer: Take care. Bye.